SEPTEMBER & OCTOBER OWNER INTERVIEW - DAVID CAREY
BACKGROUND – A little bit about yourself (Occupation, where do you live, family etc)
At school I wanted to be an actor and had a place at RADA, however a certain female Prime Minister at the time (no names) wouldn’t fund it. So, I initially took up a place with a prestigious university to read English & Drama but then dropped out within months because I thought I’d end up teaching (no disrespect to teachers). A friend offered me a ticket to the Los Angeles Colosseum to see the Rolling Stones at the largest rock concert in history at the time and I went. We then pursued careers as Rock and Roll stars (which was clearly successful). Ironically, we named the band Sahara because we thought Oasis was a terrible name for a band (roll on 20 years later). I then spent 2 years as a ‘bum’ travelling the world before returning to the UK and applying and being accepted as a pilot in the Royal Navy’s Fleet Air Arm. After that I flew commercially on the North Sea (and other locations) before retraining in medicine at 30 years. I was recruited by the British Army (surgery) for 10 years and then returned to the Royal Navy to specialise in Aviation & Diving Medicine (Surgeon Commander). After, over 20 years of military service I left and set up Templar Medical, specialising in niche areas of medicine and offering consultant led referrals to other consultant specialists. I also retrained as a Barrister, being called to the Bar of The Inner Temple I n 2016. I live on the Welsh-Shropshire borders (a graveyard of ambition) with my wife Kathryn (an accomplished horsewoman) and our gundog Paddy (Korthall Griffon)
How did you first get involved in Racing?
Brought up with it really. Horses when young and a regular at point to points. Rode out for a few trainers (some still around today). Then at Medical School in 1997 I was Founder and Chairman of St Bartholomew’s & The Royal London Turf Club which had 500 members and brought together medical students and consultants outside the clinical setting which facilitated communication between medical professionals, whilst also raising money for charity (IJF, RFD, and others). The horse was named ‘Nearly a Doctor’ (by Nearly a Hand) and because medical students were ‘nearly doctors’. I designed the colours around the medical school colours and the horse was trained by Philip Hobbs. I appointed Richard Dunwoody as patron and I ‘roped in’ other members including Sir Richard O’Sullivan and Jeremy Irons. I went ‘on tour’ with the likes of Howard Wright, Paul Khan and Cornelius Lysaght promoting ownership. Whilst in the Army I rode fairly regularly with King’s Troop (RHA) and on the gallops. Things just developed from there and I’ve never really been out of racing. More recently I formed ‘Not The Turf Club”, the irony of which will clearly resonate with some of your readers. This NH season Templar Medical will be providing a Medical Support Vehicle to Ludlow Racecourse, in the form of the new Ineos Grenadier (of Jim Ratcliffe fame).
What horses are you/have you been involved with both with Kim and other trainers
‘Nearly a Doctor’ with Philip Hobbs, ‘Gallop Rhythm’ with Robert Alner, ‘Even Stevens’ with Alistair Ralph and ‘Brendas Asking’ with Kim Bailey
What was your best/funniest experience on a racecourse?
I suppose it has to standing next to Guy Disney in the Winners enclosure when he won the Grand Military Gold Cup on Rathlin Rose at Sandown Park. Standing in-front of a roaring crowd, there was just a look between us acknowledging the difficult and long journey we’d been on to reach that point. Sorry to be sentimental (see below).
What is your favourite racecourse/race meeting?
Sorry to be predictable but Cheltenham, although Ludlow (where I sponsor races) and Nuwara Eliya Racecourse in Sri Lanka (which I rode around while I was in the country conducting war surgery) come a close second.
How did you first get involved with Kim?
God Knows? Probably a bar somewhere. I had known Kim off and on for quite a few years/decades via other trainers and contacts. However, around 10 years ago I was involved with helping Guy Disney MBE in getting his race licence back after having his leg traumatically amputated by a Rocket Propelled Grenade (RPG) whilst serving in Afghanistan. Guy had been visiting the Royal Navy’s Institute of Naval Medicine (where I was working) in preparation for his ‘Walking with the Wounded’ expedition to the South Pole (and later North Pole), he spoke to me about his desire to return to race riding. However, the regulators (Jockey Club/BHA) would not sanction it. I decided to ‘take the case’ but ‘pro-bono’ (no fee) on the basis that I gave him his first leg-up if I managed to get him back into the saddle. Over the next 4-5 years I built a case with Guy for the Jockey Club/BHA culminating in a rather dense report supporting his appeal. However, that would not have been possible without the immense help from so many others including Kim. At Kim’s we videoed Guy on the gallops loosing and regaining his ‘newly engineered’ irons and jumping over fences. Eventually, The Jockey Club/BHA, to their credit, determined that they could not find any fault with any of the evidence and arguments we’d constructed and granted Guy his licence. As most of you will know in 2017 Guy went on to win The Royal Artillery and Grand Military Gold Cups back to back on Rathlin Rose. He then went on to compete over the Aintree Grand National fences in the Foxhunter’s Chase on Gallery Exhibition, trained by Kim. A TV documentary about the Guy Disney story, ‘Against the Odds – Moving Forward’ was broadcasted last year, in which Kim and I both featured. After that Kim and myself kept bumping into each other on the racecourse and at social events, then last year I asked him to help me buy a horse at the Cheltenham November meeting. Which I did; after a great deal of fizz and fine wine, not a good combination for attending an auction, and I acquired the filly Brendas Asking.
If you were in charge of racing for a day what would you change?
Almost everything. Well, not everything, but racing desperately requires help to change public perceptions and challenge misconceptions. I won’t get more ‘political’ than that; although I will if anyone wants to talk over a pint or a single malt; but be prepared to be bored regarding everything from prize money to the whip rules and going predictions.
Now away from racing - If you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?
Bad days – anyone. Good days – no-one.
It might be interesting to ‘get into the head’ of Mozart, Hemmingway, Lord Carrington, or Spike Milligan but I think I’d settle for ‘Neil Armstrong’ (preferably on 20th July 1969); although it might be more productive to get into the head of my local builder or wife.
If you could invite any 5 people for dinner who would they be?
Kim, of course. Although on second thoughts: Jesus – I’d be interested to hear his historical take on events, or if he could predict the winner of the two-thirty at Sandown Park. Leonardi di Vinci – someone who could challenge the above. I would also be interested in his aviation and medical concepts. Fair chance he might be able to predict the winner of the two-thirty at Sandown Park. Darth Vader – might throw an interesting spanner in the works on religion with regard to the ‘dark side’ and ‘the force’. Might also have a chance of predicting (or ensuring) the winner of the two-thirty at Sandown Park. Dave Allen – More theological input from an Irishman that certainly ‘didn’t come up the Liffey on a bike’; and I’m half Irish (probably the best half). Certainly, the best predictor of the winner of the two-thirty at Sandown Park. Jessica Rabbit – always good to hear a female perspective, although her relatives are destroying our gardens and face assassination at present. She probably wouldn’t give an accurate prediction of the winner of the two-thirty at Sandown Park.
Do you have a sweet tooth or a savoury tooth?
It would depend on the wine, but generally savoury; especially game, including rabbit (sorry Jessica) and of course David Bass (I mean sorry vegans rather than I want to eat Davy).
What is your favourite food, holiday, restaurant, tv programme?
Food – from Michelin star to an East End Lahore curry,
Restaurant – too many to choose from but there was an excellent restaurant, Au Peit Riche in Paris that we ‘slipped into’ where the President was private dining (with armed police outside), we had outstanding L’escargot followed by Lamb Sweetbreads, washed down with 1996 Ch Leoville Barton and a 1990 Ch Brane-Canternac. Holiday – I’m lucky to be very well travelled in my youth and the military, so difficult, anything from to an English Country Summer to Cuba (a favourite haunt). TV – a real case of more is less. I barely ever watch it only to see what the news doesn’t know. Occasionally, over the decades, ‘jems’ do occur such as Cracker, Sherlock, Peaky Blinders or Blackadder. Otherwise it’s for access to Sport. I also like watching the MGM lion roar for some reason (ask a psychiatrist) and I’m a real movie buff – to a boring extent.
If you could do anything you wanted right now, what would it be?
I couldn’t possibly tell you (nor anyone else, including HMRC or the Crown Prosecution Service); for a hint watch the Thomas Crown Affair and/or The Sting.However, casting a fly on the Tweed or walking along a deserted beach with Kathryn; both would be accompanied with an aged Islay Single Malt and a Hoyo De Monteray Epicure No:2
What are you most looking forward to?
Tomorrow. I think. But ask me tomorrow, I might feel differently. A winner would be nice.
JULY & AUGUST OWNER INTERVIEW - TIM CAVEN
BACKGROUND – A little bit about yourself (Occupation, where do you live, family etc)
I currently live in Rugby, home has always been on the border of South Leicestershire & Warwickshire. Commercially I am still involved in the UK Sales and Marketing for a large packaging business based in Hong Kong. My work has always been connected with this industry, for many years in manufacturing. The orchestrated demise of making things in this country I still feel is deeply flawed.
Linda and I share 5 children. Binka, No4, the last to marry twelve months ago. Between them they have produced a wonderful group of children that bring great delight and keep us in touch with the world as it evolves, although I don’t think either of us would claim to fully understand.
How did you first get involved in Racing?
Leicestershire with its history of fox hunting has always been a presence in the Point to Point world. In the 60s and 70s these were wonderful social events. The best were held on a Saturday after the rugby season had finished and provided exceptional entertainment, the Atherstone at Clifton on Dunsmore a particular favourite. It was the era of roaming car boot picnic indulgence and great fun.
What horses are you/have you been involved with both with Kim and other trainers
I first had an exploratory tickle with Early Bonnet which didn’t do a great deal, then tried again with Fizzy Dancer who delivered improvement if not a result. In 2015 a place in the syndicate linked to Younevercall was suggested. With 5 kids the name appealed, the horse and I also shared the same April birthday.
We had considerable success with YNC and a great deal of fun with the syndicate. General Hubble and El Rio are the current standard bearers.
What was your best/funniest experience on a racecourse?
With YNC we had some great times but sadly the most memorable for me is neither funny nor the best. We ran at Kempton during Covid, only two passes permitted. A strange experience, a sparse, almost silent, gathering. I still have the image on my desktop of YNC being beaten into second by less than a nostril having lead from the off – this to everybody present’s total amazement, other than the line judge. Seems I muttered the B word every five miles of the 100 mile journey back to Rugby, but was otherwise silent.
Thankfully there have been other occasions to celebrate, most recently a win at Ascot with El Rio, but it seems Kempton will always rankle.
What is your favourite racecourse/race meeting?
Ascot and Sandown have looked after me very well and have an impressive aura about them. Perth was a delightful, friendly, experience. I have a strong affinity with Norfolk and enjoy Fakenham as much as any racecourse I have visited to date.
How did you first get involved with Kim?
My brother in law, Nick Cook introduced me to Kim at Towcester where Cinderella Rose duly performed, prompting great celebrations. An invitation to Kim’s September owners day followed, a full on event at the yard in where an extended lunch took place in a marquee. I’ve not missed the event since.
If you were in charge of racing for a day what would you change?
For a day I don’t think I would look to change anything really, I thoroughly enjoy the whole experience. For NH racing as a whole, fewer meetings, better prize money leading to larger fields and more competitive racing would seem to make sense. Flat racing holds little attraction for me, not sure why, maybe because it is over so quickly and in the summer there are other things to do.
Now away from racing - If you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?
My wife Linda. She seems to have not a care in the world, produces great art, grows wonderful vegetables and creates exceptional food – all this whilst going through money with barely a pause. I’d love to know how it feels – but only for a day!
If you could invite any 5 people for dinner who would they be?
Barry Humphries, George Melley, John Inverdale – all great wordsmiths.
Maddie Hinch, the gold medal winning goalkeeper of the GB Ladies Hockey team. Her performance in particular galvanised the nation during the Rio Olympics, the final getting 9 million viewers on BBC. Not easy in a minority sport. Judi Dench. In the late 50s my father shared a table with her in the dining car of a train from St Pancras, he came home smitten. In ‘68 I saw her play Sally Bowles at the Cambridge theatre London and have admired her work ever since. To ensure my guests enjoyed their time and felt stimulated I’d like to invite additional ladies whose honesty and integrity is sure to impress and entertain. Monica Lewinski, Mandy Rice-Davies, Ruby the Heart Stealer, Jennifer Arcuri and of course Stormy Daniels should ensure all present go home better informed.
Do you have a sweet tooth or a savoury tooth?
Savoury for sure – although Mrs Cook does create some cracking puds.
Mr&Mrs Partridge ran the French Partridge, a gem. just south of Northampton.
Their menu changed monthly, a savoury was always included amongst the options for the final course.
Not something you find so often these days but a great way to finish dinner.
What is your favourite food, holiday, restaurant, tv programme?
Langoustines, Keltic Seafoods in Scotland supply them live overnight – incredible.
All fish and seafood other than oysters, which disagree with me; most offal.
Holidays, skiing has to be the best. In summer anywhere beside water in the sunshine.
Restaurants – We haven’t found a replacement for Le Caprice - so many good times there to remember, businesswise and socially. Les Peupliers in Le Praz for the skiers amongst us, although its been a while now. The Ring of Bells in Cheriton Fitzpaine, Devon owned and run Binka. Recently Emilia in Ashburton near Newton Abbot, they do sharing plates and offer an offal of the day dish. When we lunched it was bone marrow risotto, so good we had a second plate for desert.
TV, The Night Manager, anything involving George Smiley, Slow Horses on Apple tv but for a relaxing view it has to be Vera. The Geordie sleuth reminds me so much of Linda. It’s not just the gait that they share, the way her hat sits or the steely glare; more the way she has an answer for everything, stands for no nonsense and invariably gets her own way - pet.
One of us sits and knits whilst the other chuckles quietly.
If you could do anything you wanted right now, what would it be?
Have the whole family together for lunch somewhere sunny.
What are you most looking forward to?
On November 22nd 2013 playing the 16th hole at Whitefields Golf Club, Warwickshire I recorded a hole in one. I still have the ball, with the detail noted.
A repeat performance, any hole, any course, is what I’m looking forward to most.
The simplest things always deliver the best and longest lasting memories!
FEBRUARY OWNER INTERVIEW - CHARLOTTE & TONY FOLEY-PALMER
BACKGROUND – A little bit about yourself (Occupation, where do you live, family etc)
Charlotte is a Director of Capital for a large multi-academy Trust, and has one son, Ben. Tony is retired, with one daughter, Gemma. We both live in Ossett, West Yorkshire.
How did you first get involved in Racing?
Tony has always enjoyed racing as a spectator sport, and Charlotte used to do county level eventing up to her 30s and 40s and enjoys anything equestrian!
What horses are you/have you been involved with both with Kim and other trainers
We have two young horses with Kim in their 1st season, Isle of Gold and General Hubble. We previously shared a horse trained by Nigel Hawke for several seasons, Some Detail, who is now trained in the USA.
What was your best/funniest experience on a racecourse?
Best experience so far was being an owner at the Cheltenham festival. Winning is always nice as well!
What is your favourite racecourse/race meeting?
The Cheltenham festival is hard to beat as an owner. Charlotte was used to continual disappointment growing up as Worcester was regularly flooded! Now we enjoy the Yorkshire & Northern courses, going regularly to Catterick, Wetherby, Thirsk and Haydock.
How did you first get involved with Kim?
We were looking for one or more horses to share in a syndicate when our previous syndicate decided to sell Some Detail, and we talked to a couple of trainers. We had initially wanted a horse with a Northern trainer, but Kim was very much in form, he and Peter were so friendly on our first visit, and the syndicates were so well run that we decided it had to be KBR!
If you were in charge of racing for a day what would you change?
Reduce admission prices to encourage more people to go
Now away from racing - If you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?
Charlotte would like to be a viking shield maiden. Tony would like to be J P McManus
If you could invite any 5 people for dinner who would they be?
Tony would invite: Luke Harvey Geoff Boycott Kim Bailey Tia Leone Allison Janney
Charlotte would invite: Kate Middleton
Thomas Tuchel
Lewis Hamilton
Aidan O’Brien
Michelle Obama
Do you have a sweet tooth or a savoury tooth?
We both prefer savoury
What is your favourite food, holiday, restaurant, tv programme?
We both love Chinese food & chateaubriand, visits to the USA and Northumberland, French bistros and Miller Carter steakhouses. TV programmes are hard – we rarely watch terrestrial but Happy Valley was amazing! We love West Wing, Madame Secretary, and Game of Thrones.
If you could do anything you wanted right now, what would it be?
We would like to go to the Breeders Cup in USA. Charlotte would like to ride on and preferably win, the Yorkshire Grand National
What are you most looking forward to?
Lots of success with Kim. Charlotte would be happy to see our horses placed regularly and doing their best
JANUARY OWNER INTERVIEW - ED HAWKINGS
Background/a little about yourself...
I am married to my wife, Kashy and have two children Georgina, 27 who works as a business manager for a large legal practice. She rides out and schools for Chris Gordon daily and has recently started pointing. Jimmy is 24 and works for a recruitment company in the City but would rather be playing football which, he does to a pretty good level!
I am an Insurance consultant specialising in International mining. We live in Bramdean ( between Winchester and Petersfield) in an old Farm house , we have 2 dogs and a varying horse population depending on injuries and time of year.
How did you get involved in racing?
Initially in the 1980’s on the flat with Nicholas Wrigley homebreds trained by Jimmy Etherington .
Then I was introduced by Teddy Beckett to Mark Smyly in Lambourn with whom we had a couple of horses.
- Pendine Sands who actually managed to win a race at Chepstow
- Drumstick, who managed a decent 2nd at Beverley before being cut and being sent over obstacles under a very brave Ronny Beggan. Mark Smyly then retired from training and recommended us to a young up and coming trainer called Kim Bailey .
What horses are you/have been involved with both Kim and other trainers?
When Drummy moved over to Kim and the tender care of Higgy at the start of 1990 little did I know that this flat bred ( Henbit /Salustrina ( Sallust)) horse would become such a superstar. Drumstick , despite two bowed tendons 3 wind operations , whilst in Kim’s charge ran in 16 hurdle races winning 2 and placed in 7 others and 60 chases winning 16 and placed in 25 others before retiring at 11 to go Pointing and Hunter Chasing . In his career he ran in 106 races! Such a tough horse, he finally was fully retired at 16 and lived on in happy retirement well into his 20’s
After Drumstick there was a natural break , unlikely to ever have such a horse again , and school fees . Then I got tempted back into horses by Paul Henderson with whom I have had a couple of decent horses.
- Kylenoe Fairy , won 5 races and came 2nd in the Summer Hurdle rated 134.She then retired to my paddocks because of injury and had 3 foals before dying giving birth to the 4th .
- Crossley Tender , won 5 races and came 2nd in the Eider rated 130 . Sadly cut off before he had reached his best when killed at Newton Abbott at the start of only his second season chasing.
My ownerships are in partnerships of between 2 and 5 people and I manage all the administration for them. Currently we have 7 horses in training as follows;
Talk of the Moon( bought as a foal ) – Kim Bailey
Coronado Joe ( homebred)- Chris Gordon
Storm Hill ( bought from pointing in Ireland)- Paul Henderson
Our Champ ( bought from pointing in Ireland )- Paul Henderson
Megalodon ( bought from pointing in Ireland)- Paul Henderson
Tzunami ( homebred) – Paul Henderson
Kylenoe Dancer ( homebred)- Paul Henderson .
I get a lot of satisfaction in finding relatively cheap horses from the pointing field in Ireland with the assistance of Aidan Kennedy, so far, I have bought 9 and only one has failed to win but he was rated 120, placed multiple times including in the stayers final at Haydock , he is now my daughters pointer as he can compete in Maidens.
What was your best/funniest experience on a racecourse?
Watching Drumstick win at the Cheltenham September meeting from the Royal Box - not surprising I was never asked back as I made a lot of noise!
What is your favourite racecourse or race meeting?
Newton Abbott, I have had a lot of success there and there is nothing quite like winning.
If you were in charge of racing for a day, what would you change?
- Adapt the race programme more towards the horse population , a substantial proportion of the horses in training are rated 100 or less although this is not reflected in the races for them.
- Come up with a standardised measure for Going , Clerks understandably want to attract entries, Trainers want to protect their charges and there is nothing more frustrating for an owner than to travel to a racecourse only to arrive and discover your horse is a non-runner because the going is not as described.
Now away from racing - if you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?
My son Jimmy, I would love to play football like him and it would be good for him to see things from my perspective and make sure he enjoys life to the full.
If you could invite any 5 people for dinner who would they be?
Jack Whitehall , Prince of Wales , Velodymyr Zalenskyy, Mark Harris ( partner in Drumstick),Bernard Cornwell.
Do you have a sweet tooth or a savoury tooth?
Savoury.
What is your favourite food, holiday and restaurant?
Fruit de Mer, Sicily and Chesil Rectory.
What are you most looking forward to?
Having a winner!!
DECEMBER OWNER INTERVIEW - STEVE JAGGARD
BACKGROUND – A little bit about yourself (Occupation, where do you live, family etc)
I live near Norwich, Norfolk with my wife, Deb and two dogs in a money-pit of an ancient farmhouse which we’ve been renovating and extending for 21 years. Both our daughter and son have settled back in Norfolk and we have two amazing little grandchildren of 2 and 4 years. Having sold my digital marketing business in 2020, I now spend my time mentoring young business owners and until last month, spent nine years as Trustee/Board Director of Norwich Theatres. Over the past year I have started working as a digital and creative consultant on ‘visioning’ projects for the arts, culture and leisure sector, reimagining how galleries, museums, visitor experiences can bring themselves up to date and make themselves into more engaging, exciting and immersive experiences. I love to learn new things!
NOVEMBER OWNER INTERVIEW - GARRY AND TRACY BETLEY
BACKGROUND – A little bit about yourself (Occupation, where do you live, family etc)
We are very fortunate to live in the beautiful village of Broadway, in Worcestershire and have been married for 33 years. I am an Estimater for a local Joinery company and Tracy works part time for a local leather retailer.
We have two grown up children, Jordan, who’s a graphic designer and lives with his fiancé Meg and our daughter Hannah who’s a primary school teacher and is married to Matt and not forgetting our cocker spaniel called Lennie.
OCTOBER OWNER INTERVIEW - ROY AND LOUISE SWINBURNE
BACKGROUND - A little bit about yourself
Louise and I live in Pattingham, South Staffordshire with our son Scott. Our three elder children ages 30, 35 and 37 have flown the nest. I am the MD of PBR Abrasives based in Willenhall, West Midlands
How did you first get involved in Racing?
Occasional visits to point-to-point meetings at Eyton on Severn and Weston Park sparked my interest and a chance meeting at Ludlow races with an owner was the start of owning horses back in 1999. All weather racing initially then National Hunt racing which is my passion.
What horses are you/have you been involved with both with Kim and other trainers?
Hollies Pearl (Peter Bowen) has been our best and we have just purchased her 2yo filly by Blue Bresil. Wells De Lune was a three time winner for us. Others include Deadly Move, Sam Noir, Catch The Rhythm, Casher Society, Latzod'Alm was our Cheltenham Hunterchase winner and many more.
What was your best/funniest experience on a racecourse?
Winning the mares listed bumper at Aintree on Grand National Day and winning the Cheltenham Intermediate Hunter Chase with Latzod'Alm - now a great 22yo and lives with us.
What is your favourite racecourse/race meeting?
Day one of The Cheltenham Festival is our favourite day. Our favourite racecourse is Ludlow followed by Bangor on Dee and Haydock
How did you first get involved with Kim?
Only recently in 2021. We were keen admirers from a distance. Kim has a good record with mares so we decided to send Time For Hollie to Kim. We were not disappointed as she won at Uttoxeter, placed second twice and finished third in four runs.
If you were in charge of racing for a day what would you change?
The prize money. It needs increasing drastically
Now away from racing - if you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?
Vladimir Putin so the dreadful war in Ukraine can stop
If you could invite any five people for dinner who would it be?
Matt Chapman, Peter Savill, Denise Coates, Sir Mark Prescott and Kim Bailey
Do you have a sweet tooth or a savoury tooth?
Savoury
What is your favourite food, holiday, restaurant, tv programme?
Food - All types of fish
Holiday - UK touring holidays in our motorhome
Restaurant - The Potted Lobster in Abersoch, North West Wales
TV Programme - Frozen Planet
If you could do anything you wanted right now, what would it be?
I would buy Constitution Hill and win the Champion Hurdle followed by the Gold Cup!
What are you most looking forward to?
The 2022/23 National Hunt Season proper
MARCH OWNER INTERVIEW - GILLIAN CLOUGH
JANUARY OWNER INTERVIEW - JOE GOLDRING
NOVEMBER OWNER INTERVIEW - NEIL BROOKE
